It was a hot summer day in Bombay when we found Mr Ratan Tata's house and decided to send him a message from 100 thousand Indians. a hundred thousand concerned and aware activists.
I remember the frantic decisions and the running around required to light some 8000 candles outside his house. We didn't even know whether he was going to see the spectacular image unveiling under his balcony as volunteers started lighting the candles on the sea shore.
But it just seemed the right thing to do.
We were not doing it for him, we were doing it for the 100 thousand people who had decided to click on the send button, to send the Mr.Tata a mail. Telling him how unfair he was being , building a port site next to the mass nesting site of olive ridley turtles. A port site that threatens to wipe Olive ridley turtles off the face of the planet. Gone. Poof. Deleted.
None of us could imagine the size of the fight we were picking on. It was pure conscience which egged us on, that and the complete absence of logic. Those were the principle that Greenpeace was once founded on . But we soon realized the size of the confrontation when our emails started getting hacked into, people were threatened with physical violence in Dhamra (the port site).and this was just the beginning.
The port builders had decided to put their massive PR machinery into action , flooding the internet with conflicting information and throwing dirt on Greenpeace . It wasnt about the turtles anymore . It became an information war. David Vs Goliath. live on the internet. pay per view.
I have nothing against the tatas, but I do have something for the turtles.
A corporation is going to invade into a turtle sanctuary and get away with it. Not only that,they will singlehandedly wipe them off this planet... and they are actually pretending to be environmentally conscious while doing it. That just makes me angry. actually no, its more than just anger ,its outrage.
The war for another species continues. And while the whales have a lot of champions , the turtles don't have many. I hope we will be enough. Else its high time to take a picture of an olive ridley , might be quite valuable in the future. Unlike a tata nano.
Here is something you can do, spread this video . as far as possible. as wide a possible. Put their PR machinery to shame, Shame them into doing something about the port. Who knows? it might just work .
44 comments:
Hi. Your post came up in my google alerts because I'm watching for "tata nano".
For the last month or so a lot of this turtle stuff is coming into my mail box.
As someone who's not a part of the PR machinery from either side (looks to me like Greenpeace etc have a pretty active "PR machinery" too) my take on the matter is simple:
India needs the nano. India also needs the Tatas.
Both the sides: give me facts, and then shut up.
Not interested in your candles nonsense. If you have a problem with the port (which is not where the nano will be built, btw, so that was a stupid effort) then suggest working alternatives.
Otherwise you're just another rabble rousing wannabe.
Facts please.
@ Shanx - Go do your research on the nano yourself then, and stop putting down people who're trying to make a difference to creatures that need help and/or are part of a group who aren't selfish and can think outside of themselves.
P.S - If this is not of interest to you, what are the "facts" to you anyway? Was that just for the sake of making a comment? Like you say - wannabe?
@ Bakshi - Well done! And an excellent video!
Envie, you pretty much encapsulated everything that's broken with you activist types.
There's a ton of stuff about turtles and the port around the web. Have you looked?
The flimsy "go do your research" BS from you has been done and dusted. If some people simply want to continue banging the table then it's their choice in life.
The turtles and the habitat are not in trouble. If you've read up a little, can you name the port not far from Dhamra that's in fact been around for decades and the turtles haven't minded one bit?
Or perhaps you're only reading blogs that comport with your apocalyptic worldview.
You may want to now go and find a better "angle" to pitch your next factless brainwave.
monsieur shanx,
I have absolutely no problem with your views. But I must say that you are a little too interested in the tatas and a too little interested in the turtles.
"India need nano, India needs Tatas?" Someone certainly seems to have a lot of love for a corporation. India's needs clearly seem to depend on your vision of her.
Your scorn of activist does you no great favour either. What you claim to be 'banging' against the table is probably the reason why you and I are able to exist as we are. Because of the banging and dissent that lies in the past of our nation.
and facts my friend? if you look for facts , you will find exactly the kind that you re looking for. As simple as that. Science has become a playground for corporations, and that includes the tatas.
"Both the sides: give me facts, and then shut up." oh really, is that all you want? and what will you do about it then? sleep on it?
The voice of dissent is an important part of civil society.
Thats the only voice I'm promoting, not because I don't know the other side. But because I know that the Tata's already have the popular mass media on their side.
and the turtles?
The port that you talk of is a fishing port. And not an industrial one. I have seen it with my own damn eyes. To make a point. There is a difference. And its a fact.
And since you seem to have done your research, there is a working alternative , we did suggest it. Even before the port was being built. Look it up.
turtles mon amour
not the tatas
@envie. Merci beaucoup:)
I have two questions for Greenpeace:
1. Was not this port cleared and/or supported by the Government? Are you also targeting them with your campaign to stop construction of this port?
2. Why is all your ire directed at the Tata's when L&T is a equal JV partner in the making of this port?
Is summary are you trying to protect the turtles or are you trying to target the Tata's only?
Perhaps all the effort is directed against the Tata's because they are a group who will listen.
If it was Orissa Govt or for that matter any other Corporate - like Reliance or Vedanta, would they care a fig about these protests?
For that matter, I don't know if Tata's also care but they definitely seem to doing things for the environment & the turtles as per their claims...
Amrit, you're the best we had, and ever will.
I am humbled by your commitment, passion, and a mind still unsullied by the cynicism of my generation or the naivete of yours.
Keep going man.
dear anonymous 1:
I am not Greenpeace. I am merely a activist who sometimes finds himself drifting on the same path as this organization. So i will not answer your question on behalf of Greenpeace. but as an individual with mild amounts of common sense....
1. The government is a system. Sometimes it works well, sometimes it doesn't. the size of our government often makes it more susceptible to corruption.
If it doesn't make sense, please read the newspaper more closely. you will find that trusting everything to the government alone is not highly recommended.
Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom. And i think u might be running low on cash.
2. Tata projects itself as a considerate , environmentally and socially conscious organization. It sells its products in India and now to the world, with that tag line.
My question is that is it all just fake advertising ? or can they actually put their money where their mouth is.
Amrit, what baloney is that. Sure tata does a number of things that help India and its people. It's not turtles. Get over it. Why should a company not advertise its products? Which company is fully clean in the manner you expect? When US companies stop polluting and German companies stop with their harm to the environment, wake us up. Until then you're as much of a snooze as the rest of these blogger wannabes.
Indeed Tata has done great and wonderful things for some people and terrible things to others.
You want me to get over them damaging turtle habitat. I ask you to get over the fact that they supply you material demands . I thought that the world had been educated enough to realize that our ecosystem is as important as us human beings. and we are a part of this world. not the only beings in
it. But it seems I was wrong.
I will not get over it. ever.
i am sure that american companies and German companies are dirty in their own ways, and isn't that such an excellent excuse to let everyone go scot free.
Oh look , Exxon wiped a couple of species too, so did Bayer. Tata's are clearly innocent. They re only planning to wipe out one.
If a company says that its built on a foundation of social and environmental equality. I will take them up on it.
Further if they advertise their so called philanthropy, I will hold it accountable.
I don't expect any corporation , whether its American , German or India, to put environment before profits without a necessary shove from the civil society. I am trying to be part of that shove. Whether I'm a wannabe blogger ( whatever that species might be ) or not. I leave entirely to your imagination.
I am not against the Tatas,
Im just for the turtles. Its the same side as whales, dogs, leopards and birds.
Great. So you admit every corporation in the world has done something untoward. Why then go specially after one of them? Because they're a good target?
If you want to play conscientious do some digging. Ports close to Orissa have existed for decades. Turtles don't mind.
The Dhamra port is about 25 kms from the nesting beach anyway. Which part of this is unclear to you blindfolded bloggers?
Stop going around so glibly convinced that you're the only ones worried about ecology. Humans need to develop. India will develop.
Let's drop the population of India if you really care about ecology in the long term. Not a single politician in these elections is talking about it...you see, it's not a populist slogan. But climate and ecology: sure, everyone's on it. You included.
Why is Finland not polluted and China/India are? Hmm?
Deal with it.
If you re looking for excuses to do absolutely nothing. I can give you one hundred.
If you want to actually do something, you will have to hunt for reasons to do it .
My question to you is that are you one of the countless who do absolutely nothing, while pretending to be pseudo intellectuals ( i believe the term is "wannabe blog commentator") or are you one of those who will actually step outside the comforts of their world to do something that they believe is wrong.
Not because it effects you directly.
But because you believe it is wrong.
I will take on one corporation, one government after another. Unless I can make them see that the planet is more important that our fucking economy. That money is never ever going to feed the minds, the bodies or the hearts of a single being.
And that is exactly what i am doing. with or without this blog.
the question is apart from writing comments here? while sitting on a comfortable chair somewhere. What are you doing?
You're doing diddly squat by boring people with this ignorant tripe. Your facts are wrong. Period.
Want to help the economy and the ecology? Find something that's grounded in fact and practical thought. Not this armchair doodling about turtles that are perfectly fine begin with.
If you truly wish to be taken seriously, find real causes. Not the drivel that Greenpeace comes up with. Google for their cred and populist work ethic (e.g., with iPhone).
Whatever man. Enjoy your life and this silly blog. Hope Greenpeace pays you on time.
well it doesn't pay very well. unlike our favorite corporation.
but of course you wouldn't know anything about that.
Are you generally unemployed to chase obscure blogs like mine and write 500 words a day? or do they actually pay you to do that? If they do, I hope that the pay is good. After all conscience is an expensive commodity to be dealing in.
=> Amrit, you apparently tried to answer my questions... but I'm really low on common sense, hence I'll ask again:
1. Whether the government is corrupt or not, whether it works as a system or not... have you / greenpeance / any other NGO made any representations at all to it? What has been the outcome?
2. While you may or may not be right on the matter of the port, the Tatas, especially Tata Steel, surely do a lot for the communities and ecologies they work in. So does L&T. So why are you / greenpeance / any other NGO not making petitions to them?
And how did you know I'm running low on cash? Ah.. I know... If I were flush with cash, I'd probably not be wasting time on reading and commenting on your "obscure" blog :)
Shanx, Anonymous and Kiula.
All of you have pretty much encapsulated everything that's broken with this planet.
Further words fail me.
Gene, words will keep failing you until you get out of your intellectually conceited cave and start thinking a little about the real world. Facts about the causes you hug would be a good start. Good luck.
@Amrit, Gene and all the other environmentalist weenies! Fuck you!
This planet and all it's resources have been made available for man to drain completely.
Hopefully we'll have figured out space travel and found another livable planet to wipe out in the next 20 years!
Someone wanted "the facts." Here are a few (you can look them all up):
1. The environmental impact report that led to construction permission for the Dhamra port was a hack job - as admitted by those who did it. The enterprise continues to co-op complaisant third-raters who promulgate worthless ecological assessments (e.g. Amlan Dutta).
2. Tata Corp. and its partners claim to operate by the precautionary principle with regards to environmental damage arising from their operations. Since they are clearly not doing so in Dhamra, they are stone hypocrites.
3. Almost all of the information that Tata, the Dhamra port corporates and governments have provided since the project began has has been disinformation intended to discredit opponents (e.g. Greenpeace) and rouse the support of people who think economic progress is measured purely in terms of the amount of money and stuff the richest 20% can get their hands on before the planet goes poof.
4. Narendra Modi, Tata's willing partner in the Nano project, would be in jail for inciting genocide in any other country besides India (well, maybe not in Sudan).
With regard to the facts, I recommend that everyone involved in this issue do one thing: start taking pictures/videos. You Indians will argue until the sacred cows come home about words.
dear anonymous 1:
I am not Greenpeace. I am a volunteer with Greenpeace and a supporter . but i am only an individual with my own views, which are often considerably different from this particular NGO, and this is where i keep them .Please make that very clear.
And Since I seem to have misinterpreted your questions , and you ask nicely , here goes. ....
1. The Dhamra port is actually an expansion of a much older ( i think its about 80 years old , but i could be wrong )fishing port. Thus it falls into the purview of the state govt to allow the new port to come up ( according to Indian constitution, any new port will have to be cleared by the central govt while any expansion falls under the purview of the state govt.) Using the loophole the tatas have expanded the small fishing jetty into an industrial port . The state govt is very much in league with the Tata's , because they clearly value the economic benefit over the ecological one. Very much like the Gujarat government. Thus they have not responded to any of our pleas , and they don't seem to have any inclination to do so.
2. I apologize for this in advance, but your second question is a a bit stupid . :) . sorry, had to be said....
If I look back , Greenpeace has done nothing but petition the Tatas in the past year. If you think that letters, videos, faxes and phone calls are not petitions , I will disagree. If I look back at Greenpeace history , I see things like Brent spar campaign against shell , decades of fighting whalers in the souther ocean, these are things that could cause considerable distress to the Tata board.I looks like Greenpeace is still clearly 'petitioning' them , for now.
They seem to think that tatas seem to value their social and environmental status. I think that after everything is said and done. Tata is just another corporation. A reputed corporation. But a corporation nonetheless. I do not expect them to withdraw out of the port simply on the basis of their conscience. their conscience , like kiula said, is utter baloney . :)
I hope that answers your questions.
Why hello Tata spambots!
*waves*
Dharmatrix, know the difference between a fact and an opinion? Points 2,3,4 in your rabid post are not facts, they are opinions. Your own, might I add.
Point 1 was borderline opinion but got saved because you included a name. Now why did these people apparently schlep a whole recommendation? Any "facts" to offer on that front?
Let us know when you have something meaningful to say.
Jugular Bean, that's impressive. All that effort into creating a new user ID. Greenpeace paying shills well these days?
If only you were actually a real Indian and not some clown paid by a wannabe org from Umreeka you'd have an inkling that Tata needs no spambots in the country. Greenpeace and its donors won't hold a candle in these markets for some time to come.
Oh wait. Not only are the robotic new user-ID commenters here Greenpeace shills, this entire blog is one of such hundred odd "activists". Try harder.
dear kiula ,
since u obvously have a fetish for facts, Greenpeace was never American. It actually started with a protest against american nuclear bomb testing.
Its amazing how many comments have you made here (7 to be more accurate), if this is indeed one of 100's of activist blogs, you seem to spend a lot of time browsing through 100s of these blogs.
Hope whoever pays you, pays you well. Like I said before, conscience is indeed an expensive commodity.
Please save some for later, because like you said, there are a lot more corporations destroying the environment out there. Im sure one will offer you a better salary grade.
Posts such as the ones from shanx and anonymous guys are welcome. Since they seem to have an opinion.
but you seem to be a little too biased to be real... anytime I want to see how great Tata is, i will pick up a brochure.
At least it is clear about its intent .And it has interesting pictures, to entertain.
I hope for your sake that one day, you'll see some turtles. alive.
For Kiula (aka Tata shill)
Regarding my "opinion" of Modi:
http://www.alrc.net/pr/mainfile.php/2004pr/47/
If you're to lazy to look it up (as most of your ilk are apt to be), it's the Asian Legal Resource Centre release on 'India: Genocide in Gujarat' distributed at the 60th Session of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights in Geneva.
Of particular note:
"Not content with their attempt at genocide in 2002, Narendra Modi and his supporters are now doing their best to obstruct justice for the victims. It must be asked how the man responsible for a crime against humanity was re-elected in December 2002. The validity of the December elections must also be questioned given that they were held early, at a time when the majority of the state's Muslims were still displaced, and were unable to cast their votes. Narendra Modi and his accomplices must be prosecuted and punished by international standards for the crime against humanity that occurred in Gujarat during 2002. Only then will justice be served. Until then, such crimes against humanity will continue. State officials have blatantly referred to the 'success' of the 'Gujarat experiment' and hinted at its implementation elsewhere in India. Modi has consistently attempted to undermine National Human Rights Commission's attention towards the Gujarat victims, to the extent of labeling it anti-Hindu."
My "opinion" of Modi reflects the facts presented to the world by the Indian NHRC and the UNCHR.
Trust an ignoramus like you to rise to what looked like my weakest point. I'll leave the cleverer students to support the others.
DHARMATRIX, where in that URL and in that paragraph is a mention of the port in Orissa or any of Tata? This is not a discussion about Modi. You're on the wrong blog.
Or will all this raucous posturing from you simply conclude with a flimsy strand of guilt-by-association?
So much for someone who came blistering with, um, facts. Try relevant facts next time.
"Want to help the economy and the ecology?"
It is rather unfortunate to see this comment, apart from the many others.
Primarily because you, as the Tatas, put economy before the ecology.
That right there makes the argument baseless. What exactly are you planning to do with the economy when our ecology has died out? You do realise that extinction is not an environmental recession, right? We will never bounce back from it... all the corporations put together will never be able to bring back the olive ridleys.
If they could, the turtles would be showing you the finger right now. Think about that before you go to bed every night.... the turtles... showing you... the finger.
amrit, thanks for that. GP may be based in NL but it's no secret where the biggest donations come from. I'm familiar from their terrorist antics in the context of whaling. Oops, I mean activist antics.
Problem with most of these causes is that without a context a number of self-proclaimed "environmentally conscious" buffoons around the world will buy into some cockameme story about poor creatures dying.
How about helping you guys one fact at a time.
Let's talk about the nesting of olive ridleys in particular. Shall we?
Little is known of the life history from the time they hatch till sexual maturity when they come to the beaches for nesting. Satellite telemetry studies and mark&recapture studies have been able to show some light on the feeding grounds of the Olive Ridley in the Orissa coast.
Did your Greenpeace folks tell you that is now known that the feeding grounds of the Olive Ridley are off the Sri Lankan coast. In recent years, more than 20 breeding turtles tagged in Orissa have been recovered near Sri Lanka and satellite telemetry indicates that some turtles remain in Orissa offshore waters, while others migrate to Sri Lanka after nesting.
Secondly, neither the location nor the terrain of the proposed Port is suitable for Olive Ridley Turtles either gathering or nesting.
Reality -- turtles are known to nest at the mouth of the River Dhamra. The Port, however, is proposed at the *north of the mouth* of the river Dharma. Geographically, the breeding area is separated from the Port site by the Wheeler Island, Kanika Island and a number of other shoals and other islands.
Coming to the natural tract, the Dhamra Port clay sticky soil as observed by the Observations of National Environment Appellate Authority (NEAA) "could never become a breeding centre for turtles."
See, all this stuff is easily available online. I don't need to be a Tata-paid shill, unlike you Greenpeace bots.
Let me know your thoughts, will you? Cheers.
fritiger, try reading a little through the thread. It's grown ups talking. Not a freckled teenager who's still grappling with basic questions weighing economy and ecology. Would you move to Orissa please and be their pall-bearer to continue being poor while making sure these turtles remain in just the kind of charm they have? If not, stfu. And meanwhile, turtles are not in danger. Read some more and come back when you have a somewhat more educated perspective.
actually some of the worlds most renowned economists are grappling with the "basic" questions weighing economy and ecology.. but then again, they probably dont have a somewhat educated perspective either eh?
As for being the pall bearer of the poor and reading some more, heres a little update: No one is asking the port to be built outside Orissa. No ones saying there should never be such a large industrial port built anywhere (but the thought is a pleasant one)... all thats being asked is for the port to be moved. But you need to stop building so that its easier to move. That is all, really.
So you willing to change sides now?
come on... dont be shy.
Move the port, why. The facts don't necessitate it. Read up.
For convenience of people like yourself who have all the time to post childish sarcasm on blogs but not enough time to dig facts, I've even mentioned a few here in the comments.
The port, being 20-25 kms away from the neating beach and separated by not one but two islands, does NOT need to be moved.
Your move, chief.
Hey there Kiula, quite sweet to insult bloggers who have been around for years, for someone who doesn't even have a profile!
Anyways, I think you should get your facts right.
The port is not 20-25 kms away from Gahirmatha, it's 13.5. Here's the Googlemap link (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=116708142276715167131.0004627dc607ce168ffa1&ll=20.794634,87.036781&spn=0.196105,0.362549&t=h&z=12), or wait, Google is somehow involved in this conspiracy to make Tata look bad. *rolls eyes *
Also the port is just 5km away from the Bhitarkanika sanctuary which is a rare Ramsar Wetland, and home to many rare species.
If you don't wish to believe Greenpeace that's fine. But you seem to be believing only the Tatas. Because there are many people backing Greenpeace's stance.
1. Over 200 SCIENTISTS including 25 of IUCNs own MTSG (Marine Turtle Specialist Group) have voiced their dissent to the port. (http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/1541/t/4058/petition.jsp?petition_KEY=835)
2. Members of the MTSG have written to the Director General of the IUCN voicing their opposition on SCIENTIFIC GROUNDS to the port (http://www.seaturtle.org/mtn/archives/mtn121/mtn121p11.shtml)
3. Several wildlife and social organisations besides Greenpeace have voiced their dissent agains the port. These include WPSI, ATREE, BNHS, Kalpavriksha
4. The National Fish workers union and the Orissa Traditional Fish workers union (representing over 100,000 fisherfolk from Orissa) have voiced their opposition to the port. (http://www.mangroveactionproject.org/news/action-alerts/stop-port-construction-save-ridley-sea-turtles-sept-oct-2007/)
Unless you are saying that ALL these scientists and organisations who have NOTHING to gain from this are simply assuming a threat.
While the Tatas, who stand to gain lots and lots of money from a mega-port, are doing this purely out of altruistic concern for the local folk and the biodiverse ecosystem of the region.
The precise threat to the turtles (as well as the rest of the ecosystem in the biodiverse Bhitarkanika national park) cannot be fully ascertained until a proper INDEPENDENT study is done in the area. The Tata's have in principle agreed to this, however such a study cannot be properly conducted in the absence of a cessation of the work at the port, specifically the dredging.
Already the possible impacts of dredging are being seen this year. While the Arribada took place, the turtles faced a lot of difficulty due to erosion of their nesting beaches. (http://www.kalingatimes.com/odisha_news/news2009/20090327_Steep_beaches_distract_nesting_turtles.htm)
The absolute lack of will from the Tatas to follow the PRECAUTIONARY PRINCIPLE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precautionary_principle) to which they should adhere as members of the UN global compact is surprising.
You probably work for the Tatas and are defending your company. But do you think this planet, our MOTHER EARTH, is at your disposal to strip uncaringly of all her natural resources?
What will happen when the last tree has been chopped down, the last river poisoned, the last fish dead? Will you eat money?
We treat this planet like it's resources are infinite, but they are not. If we destroy this planet, we DESTROY OUR HOME!
Look deep into your heart and ask yourself, would you rather have money today, and a bleak desolate future tomorrow.
PS: http://www.bhopal.net/tata_rapsheet.htmlPPS: Oh wait, all the links I gave are false. They can't be true, since they don't support unthinking development. Only links posted on the eco-dhamra site and other Tata concerns can be true.
*shrug *
kiula,
I wonder if its so clear that the Turtles are not in the region at all, they why have hundreds of scientists including 25 turtle specialists , some from IUCN itself have signed the petition to Tatas? Risking IUCNs public reputation??
http://greenpeace.in/turtle/wp-content/pdfs/scientist-statement.pdf
Wildlife Institute of India conducted a study in 2001 with 4 turtles fitted with satellite transmitters. Of these, one is reported in the waters off the Dhamra Port. To date, this is the only concluded telemetry study carried out on turtles in coastal Orissa for which the results are publicly available
http://www.wii.gov.in/webs/satindex.html
In a currently ongoing study conducted by the WII, initiated in 2006, 4 out of 11 turtles fitted with transmitters have been registered in the
off-shore waters, off the port site.
A few year ago the Bush government and the Howard government in America and Australia said that facts proved that climate change did not exist. Both governments later fell, on the basis od their climate policy and others .
But the damage they caused the world is still too much to comprehend and we might never be able to recover from it.
For me people like you are exactly the same. You try buying scientific facts
as if you re buying cheap laundry powder. to wash your dirt off.
Please go wash it somewhere else.
I still think a Tata brochure is more interesting than the crap you re trying to feed us here.
JB, that's a good post. Finally! Let me look at all the links and respond. No, I don't work for the Tatas in any way, but yes, I am not a fan of Greenpeace.
Which means I am quite open to facts. Thus far, google searches are swamped with nonsense commentary from Greenpeace activists, which is usually devoid of facts. I do hope IUCN etc get more active in the newer online media.
Anyway, as you know turtles are considered sacred in that region of Orissa (probably an old legacy; and I'm originally Oriya btw) and a lot of the local dissent was initially a point of blind resistance.
amrit, let's not go into climate change. It used to be global warming. Climate change models are not conclusive, and as a matter of policy when there is an equivocal result of studies governments have to redact any statement saying it did "NOT" exist. Which in effect only means that it might exist.
There's a lot of PR in that space, because the money is there.
The real issue is population. The biggest difference on planet earth in just the last 100 years is the number of people. For these people, we need more factories, more conveyance, etc. But population is not a populist political slogan anymore. Climate change is.
I'm all for people taking action to keep the earth under sane levels of pressure from us, but the climate change "debate" is one messy beast with data of all varieties.
Back to turtles, I'll read up on the links JB posted. As the host of the blog you should be delighted that it has attracted so much content in such a short span of time. For all the fisticuffs I'm enjoying this exchange.
Well done, JB. I've been over most of your case with the Tata gang directly, only to receive the pat claptrap Kiula is spewing.
For those who think Modi is irrelevant to this issue, I beg to differ. Tata. Mittal, Ambani, Modi bhai, bhai, bhai, bhai will have huge consequences if money-loving modern India follows their plan and puts that bloody-handed bastard in charge of the nation. Anyone remember another fascist thug that was brought to power by industrialists, in Germany?
Of course RSS India won't be as much of a threat to surrounding nations as Nazi Germany was, since I suspect even Lanka could take you lot in a fight.
Eventually, the viper will of course turn on his handlers. But a few fat industrialists hanging from lamp-posts will be cold comfort to the impoverished masses of pariah India hunkered around their fuel-less Nanos (renamed Swadeshi-Vagens) dotting the devastated landscape -- like so many dead turtles. Cold comfort indeed.
kiula since u think population is sucha big hassle, Why dont you do something about it? instead of commenting on blogs? Do you think people will stop copulating after reading some of your comments? ( looking at their quality ,It might just work ) Ever think about that.
Stop moaning about stuff online.
the difference between Greenpeace guys and tata guys seems to be that at least the greenpeace guys seem to be clear about their identities. That makes sense since if I was a tata PR person, I would be quite afraid of telling everyone so.The amount of shit flying towards me would be too high.
So lets presume you are an independent blog commentator ( who scorns bloggers since he doesn't have a blog , and hides his profiles ) all right, if thats the case please stop moaning on environmentalist blogs and go convince your beloved tatas to start handing out free condoms with their nanos. i hope you beloved brand can at least mitigate the one problem "you" think plagues our planet.
Look dudero, take your dudedom to some creche and impress some kids. Yeah, population is not a problem. Ports and factories are. Go hug a tree and donate for a whale. Dimwit.
Now make way so JB and I can have a grownup conversation.
Uncle Kiula,
If everyone was a grown up as you , we might not have a planet left to live on.
it surprises me when right wing pseudo environmentalists like you even manage to spell the word ecology right.
Good. Now that you know I can spell ecology, go suckle some more on your green lollipop. Or did you have something meaningful to say?
i did say something meaningful. It just seems you missed it.
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